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 楼主| 发表于 2013-10-3 17:46 | 显示全部楼层
Looking at the ‘homeless generation’



A view of condominiums near Subang, near LDP. A condo costs RM500,000 on average in the Klang
Valley. — Pictures by Saw Siow Feng -

KUALA LUMPUR, Sept 30 — Liow Mei Fong is 31 but is resigned to the fact that she will be living with her parents for a while longer as she simply cannot afford to own her own home in the Klang Valley.

An account executive, she earns about RM5,500 a month and has been looking at condominiums in the city and neighbouring Petaling Jaya (PJ), but noted that new units cost about RM450,000 for 1,000 sq ft which is beyond her budget of RM400,000.

”I am quite resigned to the idea of never owning a house,” Liow told The Malay Mail Online in a recent email interview.

”I think we are heading to just renting for life... would be nice if I can afford one without a 30- year loan or to have my next generation pay it off,” she added.

Liow’s problem is typical of her generation’s, as people in their 20s and 30s are forced to continue staying with their parents instead of paying expensive rent.

  

They are simply trading their independence and privacy in order to save up for a deposit when they want to buy their own home in the future.

Chang Kim Loong, honorary secretary-general of the National House Buyers Association (HBA), said that the average price of a condominium unit in the Klang Valley is RM500,000, noting that one needed to have a five-figure monthly household income of between RM10,417 and RM13,889 to afford such properties.

”Affordable” and “moderately unaffordable” homes are defined as costing below three times, and between 3.1 and 4.0 times one’s annual household income respectively, according to the housing affordability rating recommended by the World Bank and the United Nations.

”In an ideal world, we should be buying at properties deemed as ‘affordable’, which is up to 3.0 times the annual household income. However, that could be challenging and HBA would recommend that aspiring house buyers buy something that is higher than ‘moderately unaffordable’,” Chang said in a recent email interview.

He also pointed out that based on the average monthly household income in Kuala Lumpur (KL) and Selangor—which are RM8,586 and RM7,023 respectively, according to the Department of Statistics—people can only afford to buy homes costing between RM309,096 and RM412,128 in KL; and between RM252,828 and RM337,104 in Selangor.



”When was the last time you saw a new property with a KL address...(or a) Selangor address launched at the above prices?” questioned Chang.

Chang also noted that the average monthly household income in KL and Selangor is calculated based on earnings from two working spouses.

”That would mean that single people would never be able to afford to buy their own properties, thus compounding the risk of a homeless generation,” he said.

However, even with a combined income, some married couples cannot afford to move out and start their new life together.



Juliana Ahmad (not her real name), 28, got married two years ago and has a daughter aged below two years, but the senior media planner and her husband and child are still living with her parents and her sister in Taman Melawati, KL, in a single-storey house.

Juliana and her husband, who works as a journalist, have a gross household income of about RM10,000 a month, but are unable to find landed property in the city or in Petaling Jaya costing below half a million ringgit.

Juliana admitted that there are affordable houses in the outskirts of the Klang Valley, such as Klang, Cyberjaya and Nilai, but pointed out that living in such locations—far away from their work places in Damansara Uptown and Bangsar—would increase the cost of transport, which has already gotten more expensive with the recent fuel price hike.

“Yes, I can get a cheap house but have to spend more on traveling. So, no point,” said Juliana, who did not want to reveal her name due to strict company policy on talking to the media.

“We considered renting a house, but it costs as much as your repaying a housing loan. That’s how we ended up staying with my parents,” she told The Malay Mail Online.

Juliana pointed out that a house which is almost three decades old in her neighborhood costs at least RM800,000, due to its proximity to the Middle Ring Road 2 (MRR2) and the light rail transit (LRT) station.

A 900-sq ft condominium unit in Ampang, on the other hand, costs a whopping RM350,000, she said.

“If it’s a condo that’s RM300,000 for 1,200 sq ft, I don’t mind. But if it’s RM300,000 for a studio apartment, what’s the point?” Juliana questioned.

Juliana, who owns a smartphone and drives a Japanese car, sighed when asked when she could foresee herself owning a home.

“I don’t know. If I put in a five-year plan... I don’t know,” she said.

Calvin Lim (not his real name), 25, also drives a foreign car that costs RM83,000 and has to pay RM800 a month for his car loan, compared to a monthly loan repayment of RM500 if he were to purchase a local car.

“I don’t regret buying my car, but I would have bought a Myvi if I could go back in time,” the PR manager, who wanted to remain anonymous, told The Malay Mail Online.

Lim noted that RM300 a month would make a difference in the long run, even as he is hoping to move out from his family home in Damansara Jaya and have a place of his own by age 29.

Lim, who earns a monthly gross salary of RM7,000, said that new condominiums in desirable locations in the Klang Valley like Damansara Perdana, Puchong and Aman Suria cost at least RM700,000 for 1,200-sq ft units. Units as tiny as 700 sq ft are going for RM400,000.

“Half a million for a regular condo—it’s ridiculous,” he said.

The PR manager pointed out that affordable condominiums costing below RM400,000 are either “crap”—as they are inhabited by foreigners or blue collar workers and have high crime rates—or are located in distant places like Putrajaya and Cyberjaya, far away from his workplace in the city centre and from his friends in PJ.

“Technically speaking, I can own a home, but I can’t own a home in the place I want,” said Lim.

“If it’s cheap, it’s not decent—mostly flats. If it’s in PJ, it’s decent, but it’s not cheap,” he added, stressing that by “decent”, he meant a regular condominium with “not too many dodgy people around”, not a “swanky” place.

Lim described owning a home as a “personal achievement”, the “highlight of your life”, the next natural step after working for three years and buying a foreign car.

“The places that I want to stay in, I can’t afford right now... you can buy outside the Klang Valley and rent it out, but deal with the headaches of tenants,” he said.

Lim related horror stories about some of his friends who had bought condominium and flat units in Setapak and Kajang, and rented them out to tenants who either ran away, or turned out to be a triad member in the underworld.

“He cut the water because (the tenant) didn’t pay rent for two months, and he got death threats—calls and SMSes. Five months, he didn’t pay rent... and then only after three months, the police took action,” Lim said about the Kajang incident.




In the Setapak case, Lim said his friend’s tenant was three months’ behind on rent, forcing the friend to cut off water and electricity supply.

“So they painted the walls red, broke the toilet seats, stole small shit from the house, like pipes, shower heads,” Lim recalled. “The fellow just left.” He added that though plenty of his friends are still living with their parents because they can’t afford their own home, the ones who bought property did so either after getting married, or by getting their parents to chip in.

Chew Kian Sang is one such parent.

The 63-year-old, who set up an engineering company in 1995 that produces machines to process palm oil waste, gave RM300,000 each to his 29-year-old son and 33-year-old daughter to help them purchase a home each.

“We, as parents, have to prepare from day one to save this amount of money for this purpose,” Chew said.

“The most important thing is that these young people have to start from somewhere. Being bogged down by installments and cars, it might take them a few years to do something on their own,” he added.

Chew’s son, who got married a few months ago, had to take a 35-year housing loan to pay for the remaining RM380,000 for a double-storey house in Section 17, PJ, that is more than 20 years old.

Chew said that his daughter, on the other hand, is a permanent resident in Singapore who bought a condominium unit in the island republic after getting married there. “My parents made me start at zero. Now, I made them start at 30 or 50... finally, they’ll reach 100,” he said. “It’s very tough, but I’m happy I’m able to do it.” When asked if property was currently unaffordable for young people, compared to three decades ago, Chew disagreed, noting that salaries back then were lower. Chew bought a semi-detached house in Section 6, PJ, in 1986 for RM200,000 at the age of 36 after getting married.

“It’s just that, the young generation today—their mindset is they want everything to be convenient,” he said.

”Then they realise, to stay in this area, this is the price you have to pay. So, it’s not true to say that property is not affordable for the young,” added Chew. “When you talk about property not affordable, yes, for PJ and KL. But if you go to Semenyih, Kajang, I believe those properties are affordable.”

When asked why he did not let his son buy a cheaper home on his own elsewhere, Chew stressed that he wanted to give his children a leg up in life.

Chew also noted that young adults might be influenced by peer pressure to live in more upscale locations, instead of “old areas” like PJ Old Town.

“It’s lifestyle that you’re looking at,” Chew said



Chew’s observation appears to hold true. For Liow, Lim and Juliana, living in the outskirts of the Klang Valley - -far from their places of work and circle of friends—is unimaginable.

They say that property prices nowadays are “crazily inflated” and “absolutely ridiculous”, stressing that purchasing a home in distant locations will only raise transport costs and isolate them from friends and family.

Living in KL or PJ should not be a luxury, the young adults maintain, as it is not prestigious addresses that they are looking at, merely “decent” homes. Their desire to stay close to the city centre, however, appears to be influenced by other lifestyle choices, such as sipping an RM10 latte at an indie cafe in Bangsar over the weekend, owning a smartphone, or driving a foreign car.

A social outing once or twice a week costs about RM50 each time, Liow and Lim say. A fortnightly family dinner for two at a Western restaurant in a shopping mall costs between RM150 and RM200, according to Juliana. Liow also sets aside RM300 every month to go on vacation or dive trips.

But Lim, who sells insurance on the side, is optimistic about buying his first home before he turns 29. “Different business opportunities may open. So, there’s not only one source of income,” he said.


http://www.themalaymailonline.co ... homeless-generation

也建议大家开 link 去看看文章下面读者们的 comment。

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-10-3 18:24 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 夜孩子 于 2013-10-3 18:35 编辑
Looking at the ‘homeless generation’



A view of condominiums near Subang, near LDP. A condo  ...
夜孩子 发表于 2013-10-3 17:46

KUALA LUMPUR, Sept 30 — Liow Mei Fong is 31 but is resigned to the fact that she will be living with her parents for a while longer as she simply cannot afford to own her own home in the Klang Valley.

An account executive, she earns about RM5,500 a month and has been looking at condominiums in the city and neighbouring Petaling Jaya (PJ), but noted that new units cost about RM450,000 for 1,000 sq ft which is beyond her budget of RM400,000.

”I am quite resigned to the idea of never owning a house,” Liow told The Malay Mail Online in a recent email interview.

I think we are heading to just renting for life... would be nice if I can afford one without a 30- year loan or to have my next generation pay it off,” she added.

Liow’s problem is typical of her generation’s, as people in their 20s and 30s are forced to continue staying with their parents instead of paying expensive rent.


很多的产业大大,起步时月入都没有 RM5.5k,都可以置产,甚至投资产业。
不是收入也不是房价的问题,而是思维和消费习惯的问题。
要买到好的产业,又不肯负债 30年,就只能打算租一辈子的房子。


Chang Kim Loong, honorary secretary-general of the National House Buyers Association (HBA), said that the average price of a condominium unit in the Klang Valley is RM500,000, noting that one needed to have a five-figure monthly household income of between RM10,417 and RM13,889 to afford such properties.

”Affordable” and “moderately unaffordable” homes are defined as costing below three times, and between 3.1 and 4.0 times one’s annual household income respectively, according to the housing affordability rating recommended by the World Bank and the United Nations.

”In an ideal world, we should be buying at properties deemed as ‘affordable’, which is up to 3.0 times the annual household income. However, that could be challenging and HBA would recommend that aspiring house buyers buy something that is higher than ‘moderately unaffordable’,” Chang said in a recent email interview.

He also pointed out that based on the average monthly household income in Kuala Lumpur (KL) and Selangor—which are RM8,586 and RM7,023 respectively, according to the Department of Statistics—people can only afford to buy homes costing between RM309,096 and RM412,128 in KL; and between RM252,828 and RM337,104 in Selangor.


这样的思想恐怕只能无止境地等下去了。
相比其他国家如新加坡,泰国,中国等。。。
大马的人民相对之下是身处在犹如天堂般的产业市场环境。
不能拿一般的产业价格,来作为大都市的价格指标的。
这样的价格范围几乎从来都不会在任何国家的大都市里出现过。
执著的话,只能一辈子扮演受害者的角色。

其中一位读者,就给了一个很现实的 comment

Curmudgeon · 2 days ago
The HBA needs to get realistic. Only small & medium sized cities in developed countries can have a property price to income ratio below 4. KL is actually close to New York at a ratio of 10. Bad, , you think? Singapore and Bangkok: above 20. Beijing tops at 35 times annual income to buy an average property. Sorry but the people interviewed here seem rather spoilt. The couple earning 10k a month? Why don't they start with a small apartment nearby? Around Melawati, there are decent units going from 250k onwards. Kenapa, tak cukup glamour?


”When was the last time you saw a new property with a KL address...(or a) Selangor address launched at the above prices?” questioned Chang.

Chang also noted that the average monthly household income in KL and Selangor is calculated based on earnings from two working spouses.

”That would mean that single people would never be able to afford to buy their own properties, thus compounding the risk of a homeless generation,” he said.

However, even with a combined income, some married couples cannot afford to move out and start their new life together.


家庭收入合计 RM8600 的话,个人的月入就逼近 RM4.5k 了。
有人对没有资产底子,在大都市月入 RM5k 的受薪族喊穷而大惊小怪,
认为是社会的病态,不懂得分辨“想要”和“需要”;
有人认为是正常合理的,不必少见多怪。。。见仁见智。



Juliana and her husband, who works as a journalist, have a gross household income of about RM10,000 a month, but are unable to find landed property in the city or in Petaling Jaya costing below half a million ringgit.

Juliana admitted that there are affordable houses in the outskirts of the Klang Valley, such as Klang, Cyberjaya and Nilai, but pointed out that living in such locations—far away from their work places in Damansara Uptown and Bangsar—would increase the cost of transport, which has already gotten more expensive with the recent fuel price hike.


很现实的问题。
经常把生活水平 budget 到最低,甚至还是低于一般平均生活水平,
不肯开源,工资收入又维持在刚刚好生活开支的上面的一群 super saver,
近期都对油价上涨,和可能继续无限制地上涨感到超级压力。
只要通膨再加速少少,这群 super saver 马上就会被屠杀掉。


A 900-sq ft condominium unit in Ampang, on the other hand, costs a whopping RM350,000, she said.

“If it’s a condo that’s RM300,000 for 1,200 sq ft, I don’t mind. But if it’s RM300,000 for a studio apartment, what’s the point?” Juliana questioned.

Juliana, who owns a smartphone and drives a Japanese car, sighed when asked when she could foresee herself owning a home.

“I don’t know. If I put in a five-year plan... I don’t know,” she said.


这位小姐似乎依然活在过去,对产业价格的认知和接受程度依然停留在多年前。
同时,和许多人一样。。。有钱买日本车,或者低收入群买全新的 MyVi,买贵的 smartphone,
有钱去旅行,但来到规划买屋子时。。。


Calvin Lim (not his real name), 25, also drives a foreign car that costs RM83,000 and has to pay RM800 a month for his car loan, compared to a monthly loan repayment of RM500 if he were to purchase a local car.

“I don’t regret buying my car, but I would have bought a Myvi if I could go back in time,” the PR manager, who wanted to remain anonymous, told The Malay Mail Online.

Lim noted that RM300 a month would make a difference in the long run, even as he is hoping to move out from his family home in Damansara Jaya and have a place of his own by age 29.


很多人在刚出来职场就业时,一般上的 pattern 都是先买车,之后才来规划买产业。
甚至,买产业,一开始根本不在他们的规划当中。
在买车的时候,没有意识到汽车供期即使每月只是多处额外的 RM300,
对可承担的产业价格而言,可是有相当致命性的差异。
RM300,对买车来说。。。可能是买新 MyVi vs. 二手的分别,
或者买 Vios / City 和 买国产车的分别。
数年后当准备规划结婚和买房子时,这每月额外 RM300-500 的汽车供期,
最终都成为房屋借贷上压死骆驼的最后一根草。

衣、食、住、行。。。“住”走在“行”的前头,收入有限的时候,
应该把 priorities 放在“住”为先,对“行”方面作出点取舍。
未必是要先买房子才来买车的意思。。。
而是对汽车类型的选择,应该在对居住规划进行衡量后,才来看可以承担怎么样类型的车子。


Lim, who earns a monthly gross salary of RM7,000, said that new condominiums in desirable locations in the Klang Valley like Damansara Perdana, Puchong and Aman Suria cost at least RM700,000 for 1,200-sq ft units. Units as tiny as 700 sq ft are going for RM400,000.

“Half a million for a regular condo—it’s ridiculous,” he said.

The PR manager pointed out that affordable condominiums costing below RM400,000 are either “crap”—as they are inhabited by foreigners or blue collar workers and have high crime rates—or are located in distant places like Putrajaya and Cyberjaya, far away from his workplace in the city centre and from his friends in PJ.

“Technically speaking, I can own a home, but I can’t own a home in the place I want,” said Lim.


个人月入 RM7k 的人还买不起房子。。。这个 25岁的 PR Manager 走出街门如果给穷人点了相,肯定会欠扁。


Living in KL or PJ should not be a luxury, the young adults maintain, as it is not prestigious addresses that they are looking at, merely “decent” homes. Their desire to stay close to the city centre, however, appears to be influenced by other lifestyle choices, such as sipping an RM10 latte at an indie cafe in Bangsar over the weekend, owning a smartphone, or driving a foreign car.

A social outing once or twice a week costs about RM50 each time, Liow and Lim say. A fortnightly family dinner for two at a Western restaurant in a shopping mall costs between RM150 and RM200, according to Juliana. Liow also sets aside RM300 every month to go on vacation or dive trips.

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发表于 2013-10-3 19:49 | 显示全部楼层
很KL is actually close to New York at a ratio of 10. Bad, , you think? Singapore and Bangkok: above 20. Beijing tops at 35 times annual income to buy an average property.
夜孩子 发表于 2013-10-3 18:24


新加坡的也大概是10左右吧

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发表于 2013-10-4 00:02 | 显示全部楼层
看了那些留言,发现很大部分都是80后和90后
讲到底,还是理财方面有问题

我身边有两个打工族朋友的例子:
A君:2010年月薪大约RM8,000,2010年至今一直走走看看房地产,一拖就三年,结果一间都没有,还在埋怨房屋价高昂,目前租着房子。
B君:2010月薪大约RM2,500,2010看中Setapak公寓,买了下来,结果银行贷款不批,想了很久才劝服哥哥联名,贷款90%批准了,目前做包租婆,住小房,另外两间出租,租金已经足够换贷款。

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-10-4 00:07 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 夜孩子 于 2013-10-4 00:12 编辑

有趣。。。

成交量几乎完全相同,难道是。。。左手换右手?



6月时最后的乌龙交易。。。成交量 362,900 股。

前几天的成交量 360,800 股。。。几乎完全相符,只有 100 股分别。

为何是 100 股?因为我很肯定当时其中有 2,000 股被医师给吸去了。。。

所以大户操控的股要扣掉 2,000 股。。。

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发表于 2013-10-4 00:23 | 显示全部楼层
回复 15606# 夜孩子


   
哈哈,
夜兄,

看看三奶F&N近期的交易,
医师选择相信是两个大户在换票!
所以,
医师选择揸着不放等戏看.

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发表于 2013-10-4 00:24 | 显示全部楼层
回复 15606# 夜孩子

強!!!
這樣都被你發現了

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-10-4 00:29 | 显示全部楼层
回复  夜孩子


   
哈哈,
夜兄,

看看三奶F&N近期的交易,
医师选择相信是两个大户在换票!
所 ...
tabibho 发表于 2013-10-4 00:23




哈哈。。。医师,
图表其实也是看爽,顺便逗逗医师的啦。

业务简单的公司,就用回简单的方法来投资。

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发表于 2013-10-4 10:10 | 显示全部楼层
A君:2010年月薪大约RM8,000 ...
yhtan 发表于 2013-10-4 00:02


月薪rm8k可以印出来的钱
太浪费了。。

等loan package blr+ 2, max tenure 20 年

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发表于 2013-10-4 10:20 | 显示全部楼层
回复 15603# 夜孩子

要就怪他们自己吃惯,享受惯的坏习惯。。月收入买不起房子

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发表于 2013-10-4 12:02 | 显示全部楼层
月薪rm8k可以印出来的钱
太浪费了。。

等loan package blr+ 2, max tenure 20 年
想回到过去 发表于 2013-10-4 10:10


银行最喜欢这种高收入客户了

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-10-4 14:39 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 夜孩子 于 2013-10-4 14:41 编辑

之前自己预期其中几个股年尾基金经理抹窗口后的目标收市价:

LPI  - RM16.00
PBB - RM18.00 (要看今天收市)(现在的 DY 比 NESTLE 还要烂
DLADY - RM52.00 (条件是派息维持)
F&N - RM19.00
HUPSENG - RM4.50 (已经突破)

希望年尾会顺利达标。。。

如果大众年尾收在 RM18.20,那今年大众银行个股又再次带来 15% 回酬。

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发表于 2013-10-4 14:43 | 显示全部楼层
之前自己预期其中几个股年尾基金经理抹窗口后的目标收市价:

LPI  - RM16.00
PBB - RM18.00 (要看今天 ...
夜孩子 发表于 2013-10-4 14:39



    你就好咯,赚这样多

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-10-4 14:47 | 显示全部楼层
你就好咯,赚这样多
war 发表于 2013-10-4 14:43


那里会多。。。稳稳吃米粉罢了。

不比你的 HARTA 多。。。

不懂 F&N 几时抹窗抹出 RM30?

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发表于 2013-10-4 14:56 | 显示全部楼层
那里会多。。。稳稳吃米粉罢了。

不比你的 HARTA 多。。。

不懂 F&N 几时抹窗抹出 RM30?; ...
夜孩子 发表于 2013-10-4 14:47


下个月F&N突然赚25c,22.00都有。
harta等多五年自然15.00.
何必太着急,要来的迟早会来。

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发表于 2013-10-4 16:59 | 显示全部楼层
回复 15606# 夜孩子

今天交易量有点夸张。。冷门bkawan竟然有860k 股交易

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发表于 2013-10-4 17:05 | 显示全部楼层
之前自己预期其中几个股年尾基金经理抹窗口后的目标收市价:

LPI  - RM16.00
PBB - RM18.00 (要看今天 ...
夜孩子 发表于 2013-10-4 14:39


DLADY - RM52.00 (条件是派息维持)
承你贵言

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发表于 2013-10-4 17:14 | 显示全部楼层
之前自己预期其中几个股年尾基金经理抹窗口后的目标收市价:

LPI  - RM16.00
PBB - RM18.00 (要看今天 ...
夜孩子 发表于 2013-10-4 14:39


dlady睡了有大半年了...

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-10-4 19:41 | 显示全部楼层
dlady睡了有大半年了...
cx5 发表于 2013-10-4 17:14


好像不止大半年。。。应该差不多1年了。

去年的这个时候 DLADY ~RM47
NESTLE ~RM67

找资金买更多。。。看哪个先破 RM100。。。

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发表于 2013-10-4 20:30 | 显示全部楼层
回复 15620# 夜孩子

那夜大觉得那一个比较快破百?

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